Tag Archives: John

CC Officially Announces 2019 is it.

Yankee Stadium Frieze

CC Sabathia officially announced Saturday what was known for a while (since he signed his 2019 contract)—that 2019 will be his last season. CC turns 39 in July.

Here are the highlights of his career so far:

246 wins. Needs 4 for 250, 10 to tie Andy Pettitte on the all-time list.
2986 strikeouts. Needs 14 for 3000.

Cleveland 2001-2008, Milwaukee 2008, Yankees 2009-2019. If a Hall of Famer, it may be difficult to distinguish between Cleveland and the Yankees for the cap for the Hall of Fame Plaque (much like Mussina couldn’t decide between Baltimore and the Yankees).

6X All-Star. 2009 ALCS MVP. Won 1 WS (2009 Yankees). 2nd in ROY in 2001. Twice led the majors in wins (2009 and 2010). 21 game winner in 2010.

Led league in starts 2x, CG once, shutouts once. IP once. 2007 CYA winner.

Got MVP consideration 5x, finishing 6th in 2008. In 2008 he led the majors in GS, CG and IP (didn’t lead league because he split time between the AL and NL). CYA consideration 5X.

15 or more wins in a season 8X.

162 game average 16-10, 3.70, ERA+ 117.

10-7, 4.31 in the postseason.

.212-3-15 as a hitter.

With the Yankees, he’s had three careers.

The first of staff ace, 2009-2012, when he averaged 18-7, 3.22 in those four years.

The second of struggling, aging pitcher who appeared finished. From 2013-2015, he went 23-27, 4.81. An average of 8-9, 4.81 per season. He missed most of 2014.

He kicked alcohol addiction and reinvented himself from 2016-2018 to be a serviceable backend-of-the-rotation pitcher, going 32-24, 3.76 over the past three seasons. If he can maintain that average and go 11-8, 3.76 in 2019 as the #5 starter, I think we’ll take it.

Hall-of-Fame? We’ll see. Some votes have me confused.

For example

CC 16-10, 3.70 162 game average. ERA+ 117. 10-7, 4.31 postseason. 1 CYA, 5x MVP consideration.
Black ink 22/40 (2nd # average HOF); Gray ink 174/185; HOF standards 113/100, HOF monitor 46/50. He is ranked 71st in JAWS for Starting pitcher, and his WAR numbers are about 80% of the average Hall-of Famer. WAR numbers:  62.7/39.4/51 (HOF are 73.4/50/61.7 average). With 10 wins he matches Pettitte’s 256.

Andy Pettitte, meanwhile, averaged 17-10, 3.85, ERA+ 117. 19-11, 3.81 postseason. 5x WS Champ as opposed to CC’s once. Never won the CYA, finished 2nd once, considered for it 5x, same as CC. 3rd in ROY 1995. MVP consideration 2x (CC was 5). Pettitte won 20 games in a season twice (CC once). 8x 15 or more wins in a season (same as CC). But black ink 7/40; Gray ink 103/185 (both less than CC). HOF standards 128/100 (better); HOF monitor 44/50.   JAWS 90th. War numbers 60.2/34.1/47.2.

Andy is slightly below CC, but Andy only got 9.9% of the vote this year from the writers. The HGH usage hurt him. There is no HGH hints with CC, but if Andy got only 9.9% of the vote, how is CC THAT much better than Andy where CC gets the 75% or more to get in (he won’t be eligible until 2025).

This isn’t a knock on CC’s HOF credentials, but a puzzlement on Andy only getting 9.9%. Andy wasn’t a strikeout pitcher (didn’t get 2500 K, while CC is almost at 3000) but to me, there isn’t THAT much difference between the two ….

But then, you wonder …. CC at 246 wins … HOF or not? Andy 256 has a long way to go to get 75% of the writer’s vote. Mike Mussina with 270 wins finally got in on his sixth year on the ballot.

We’ll forget about Clemens and his 354 wins (Steroid allegations), but just note two others not in the Hall: Jim Kaat (283 wins) and Tommy John (288). In the cases of Kaat and John, maybe they hung on too long. Both pitched into their 40s and maybe that is what people remember the most—them hanging on possibly a bit too long. As for John, only two pitchers (Clemens with the steroid issue and Bobby Mathews, a pitcher from the 1870s and 1880s) have more wins but are not in the Hall. Only one more (Tony Mullane 1880s and 1890s) isn’t in the Hall before you get to Kaat.

Those pre-1900 pitchers are a far different breed and ballgame.

But still, I’m scratching my head over who is HOF material and who isn’t from those guys I listed.  It’s a fine line between them getting in or not.

 

 

Advertisements

Torre, Cox, LaRussa make the HOF

Joe Torre, who guided the Yankees to four WS Championships from 1996-2000, was unanimously selected to the Hall of Fame today by the Veterans’ Committee. Also selected were ex-managers Bobby Cox and Tony LaRussa, both of them unanimously as well.

I have to get to work soon, so I can’t elaborate further right now.

On the ballot, but not getting in were Billy Martin, Marvin Miller, George Steinbrenner, Tommy John, among others.

Later….

Billy and George in the HOF together? Odds extremely long, but…

No, can’t happen, can it?

It probably won’t, but they are both on the Veterans’ Committee ballot this year.

From MLB.com:

The 12 individuals who will be considered by the Expansion Era Committee in December for Hall of Fame induction in 2011:

Former players Vida Blue, Dave Concepcion, Steve Garvey, Ron Guidry, Tommy John, Al Oliver, Ted Simmons and Rusty Staub; former manager Billy Martin; and executives Pat Gillick, Marvin Miller and George Steinbrenner. Martin and Steinbrenner are deceased; all other candidates are living.

The ballot will be reviewed and voted on by a 16-member electorate at the 2010 Winter Meetings. The results of the vote will be announced on Dec. 6 at the Winter Meetings in Orlando, Fla.

 

I’d put in Marvin Miller, but the execs will probably do everything possible to keep him out. Billy’s managing may suggest he go in, but he has serious character issues. It will be interesting to see if sentiment gets George in. After all, he was suspended from baseball twice, so he has character issues of his own.

I’d consider Tommy John. The problem there is that people consider him a “compiler.” He did have 288 wins, but over a very long career. He was a good pitcher, and his surgery did change the game, but…

maybe it’s Dr. Jobe that should go into the HOF. With his successful surgery on John, HE is the one who changed the game and deserves the HOF acclamation the most.

I’m sure that every pitcher who had the surgery, and whose career was saved, would agree.

Compilers? Vs. actual stats

It’s hard to distinguish, when you are talking the Hall.

50 years ago, you had only 16 teams, not 30. There was no DH.

Does Roger Clemens win 355 if not for the years in Houston? If Randy Johnson doesn’t go back to the NL after 2004 does he win 300? Probably not.

If not for the DH, does Edgar Martinez get any consideration for the HOF? Probably not, because he wouldn’t have had a position to play. Would he have had any consideration for the HOF? I don’t think so. Blyleven missed the HOF by 5 votes. 287 wins.  Blyleven was 41 in his last year. Tommy John, who won one more game than Blyleven, was 46 in his last year. Jim Kaat, 283, wins was 44. Heck, Clemens was 45 in his last game. Jamie Moyer is still active and 47.   

It is a question that pertains to a Harold Baines. The DH lets people accumulate stats. Expansion has done the same thing (not to mention places like Colorado, where one’s offensive stats have to be taken with a grain of salt). It’s an interesting call when it come to the HOF vote. Excellent and a HOF? Or just very good?

A couple of free agent signings today. Podsednik goes to KC. Brett Myers to Houston (where the GM, Ed Wade, used to be Myers’ GM in Philly). I know of one Cardinal fan buddy who was interested in Myers as a closer in St. Louis (Myers closed in Philly in 2007). Considering Franklin, and his age, I think my buddy had a good point in wanting the Cards to get Myers for the closer role. Maybe they look at Valverde now? I’m surprised that Philly hasn’t done so already.

           

Clemens in trouble? More on the HOF

A grand jury is convening in DC to determine whether to indict Roger Clemens for perjury to Congress. Witnesses could appear as early as this week. Wonder if Pettitte will be one of them?

Tommy John failed to make the HOF in his final time on the writer’s ballot. John won 20 games in a season 3x. 288-231, 3.34, ERA+ 110. He is the highest eligible modern pitcher on the win-list not in the HOF. Of course that could change in a few years with the Clemens situation. There is one guy who won 297 who is not in the HOF. Guy named Bobby Mathews (1881-1897). Don’t ask, I never heard of him before looking it up on baseball-reference.com. John was twice (1977 Dodgers, 1979 Yankees) runnerup for the CYA. Cleveland 1963-1964, Chicago White Sox 1965-1971, Dodgers 1972-1978, Yanks I 1979-1982, Angels 1982-1985, A’s 1985, Yanks II 1986-1989. 162 g. ave. 13-10, 3.34.

John started 13 postseason games and relieved in one more. 6-3, 2.65. A superb postseason record.

I’ve been to the HOF three times or so, but not for a few years. Maybe John shouldn’t be in, but maybe Dr. Frank Jobe should be. No, not in the main hall with the players or anything, but maybe in a special exhibit that chronicles in detail the John operation, with maybe a picture of John and Jobe… after all, by enabling John and so many others after him to resume their careers, Jobe has had one huge impact on the game. More so than some other “contributors” (see Morgan Bulkeley for one). Speaking of contributors, Marvin Miller, controversial as he may be, deserves to be in as well.

From Baseball Reference. The vote totals.

Player Votes 2009 % of Vote 2008 % of Vote
IN

Rickey Henderson 511 94.8% 1st year
Jim Rice 412 76.4% 72.2%

Less than 75% of vote, but will be on next year’s ballot.
Andre Dawson 361 67.0% 65.9%
Bert Blyleven 338 62.7% 61.9%
Lee Smith 240 44.5% 43.3%
Jack Morris 237 44.0% 42.9%
Tommy John (final ballot) 171 31.7% 29.1%
Tim Raines 122 22.6% 24.3%
Mark McGwire 118 21.9% 23.6%
Alan Trammell 94 17.4% 18.2%
Dave Parker 81 15.0% 15.1%
Don Mattingly 64 11.9% 15.8%
Dale Murphy 62 11.5% 13.8%
Harold Baines 32 5.9% 5.2%

Less than 5%, will not be on next year’s ballot
Mark Grace 22 4.1% 1st year
David Cone 21 3.9% 1st year
Matt Williams 7 1.3% 1st year
Mo Vaughn 6 1.1% 1st year
Jay Bell 2 0.4% 1st year
Jesse Orosco 1 0.2% 1st year
Ron Gant 0 0% 1st year
Greg Vaughn 0 0% 1st year
Dan Plesac 0 0% 1st year